Questions for docs, part 1

[Gervase Markham]

Part 1 because I suspect there will be more of these :-)

* Under what circumstances do people need to use a tarball to install
or upgrade? Is it only if they have no network connection?

* Should we recommend using Git (over tarballs) wherever possible?

* Do our tarballs come with VCS information? Since when? If so, does
that mean everyone actually has a VCS checkout, and can upgrade using
a VCS method?

* I'm writing a Quick Start guide - a simple 1, 2, 3 to get Bugzilla up
and running using Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, MySQL and Apache. Do I describe
Ubuntu Server (supported for longer) and a console install, or Ubuntu
Desktop so they can use a graphical text editor and web browser?

Gerv
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[Simon Green]

Post by Gervase Markham
* Under what circumstances do people need to use a tarball to install
or upgrade? Is it only if they have no network connection?

I would expect the vast majority of user would use the tarball over VCS.
It's easier to get a gz file than it is to install git, and try and
figure out the right command. I'm basing this on the assumption that
most companies that use Bugzilla have sysadmins whos skills can be
described as beginner to immediate.

Post by Gervase Markham
* Should we recommend using Git (over tarballs) wherever possible?

Definitely make a note in the guide, but I think for the lowest barrier
to entry, the quick start guide should use the .tar.gz file. Sysadmins
know what to do with that file :)

Post by Gervase Markham
* Do our tarballs come with VCS information?

Yes, .bzr exists in these directories (
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/webtools/bugzilla-4.4.5.tar.gz at
least)

Surprisingly, 4.5.5 also has a .bzr directory even though there won't be
a 5.0 bzr repo, IIRC. dkl or mcote will be able to clarify.

Post by Gervase Markham
If so, does
that mean everyone actually has a VCS checkout, and can upgrade using
a VCS method?

Yes.

Post by Gervase Markham
* I'm writing a Quick Start guide - a simple 1, 2, 3 to get Bugzilla up
and running using Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, MySQL and Apache. Do I describe
Ubuntu Server (supported for longer) and a console install, or Ubuntu
Desktop so they can use a graphical text editor and web browser?

Ubuntu Server LTS. I'm going to assume even a beginner sysadmin knows
how to edit a file from the command line.

[Damien]

Post by Simon Green

Post by Gervase Markham
* Under what circumstances do people need to use a tarball to install
or upgrade? Is it only if they have no network connection?

I would expect the vast majority of user would use the tarball over VCS.
It's easier to get a gz file than it is to install git, and try and
figure out the right command. I'm basing this on the assumption that
most companies that use Bugzilla have sysadmins whos skills can be
described as beginner to immediate.

In my case, we have sysadmins, and we have a "tools" team.
Tools team maintains a git clone of bugzilla with a branch that contains
all customizations and extensions needed. They know how to spell git.

IMHO, nobody would use a tarball unless it contains their customizations;
or they also maintain a bunch of patches somewhere that they can apply.

Post by Simon Green

Post by Gervase Markham
* Should we recommend using Git (over tarballs) wherever possible?

Definitely make a note in the guide, but I think for the lowest barrier
to entry, the quick start guide should use the .tar.gz file. Sysadmins
know what to do with that file :)

To me, someone who doesn't know what a VCS is, is not a team player.
Most concepts are portable.
https://try.github.io/
http://gitimmersion.com/

Post by Simon Green

Post by Gervase Markham
* Do our tarballs come with VCS information?

Yes, .bzr exists in these directories (
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/webtools/bugzilla-4.4.5.tar.gz at
least)
Surprisingly, 4.5.5 also has a .bzr directory even though there won't be
a 5.0 bzr repo, IIRC. dkl or mcote will be able to clarify.

Post by Gervase Markham
If so, does
that mean everyone actually has a VCS checkout, and can upgrade using
a VCS method?

Yes.

Post by Gervase Markham
* I'm writing a Quick Start guide - a simple 1, 2, 3 to get Bugzilla up
and running using Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, MySQL and Apache. Do I describe
Ubuntu Server (supported for longer) and a console install, or Ubuntu
Desktop so they can use a graphical text editor and web browser?

Ubuntu Server LTS. I'm going to assume even a beginner sysadmin knows
how to edit a file from the command line.

The 2 sysadmins I have to work with have no love for ubuntu (e.g. config
files in a totally
different place than other distros.). They are from a RHEL/CentOS
background.
I think any documentation better than none is a great idea though.

Server over desktop, clearly. Sysadmins can have ubuntu desktop on their
own machine;
they can do scp if they can't work with vim or nano.

I got a page for a different stack:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugzilla:Installation_with_nginx
see if there is anything of interest there.

Regards,
Damien.
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[David Lawrence]

Post by Simon Green

Post by Gervase Markham
* Do our tarballs come with VCS information?

Yes, .bzr exists in these directories (
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/webtools/bugzilla-4.4.5.tar.gz at
least)
Surprisingly, 4.5.5 also has a .bzr directory even though there won't be
a 5.0 bzr repo, IIRC. dkl or mcote will be able to clarify.

It does as the scripts used to generate the tarballs still pull from
BZR and not yet git. We still mirror git/bugzilla/master in git to
bzr/bugzilla/trunk so not a problem until we turn that off.

dkl

[Gervase Markham]

Post by David Lawrence
It does as the scripts used to generate the tarballs still pull from
BZR and not yet git. We still mirror git/bugzilla/master in git to
bzr/bugzilla/trunk so not a problem until we turn that off.

Well, it means that every tarball installation done today will need to
go through the bzr -> git migration process, whereas if the tarball
contained git info, it wouldn't. So we should fix this soon. Is there a
bug open?

Gerv

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[Gervase Markham]

Post by Simon Green
I would expect the vast majority of user would use the tarball over VCS.
It's easier to get a gz file than it is to install git,

Says the man whose company invented "yum install git"? :-)

Post by Simon Green
and try and
figure out the right command.

Well, the commands will be in the instructions :-)

Post by Simon Green
I'm basing this on the assumption that
most companies that use Bugzilla have sysadmins whos skills can be
described as beginner to immediate.

Given the cheap cost of VMs and hardware today, people who have simple
sysadmin skills should perhaps be using the Quick Start instructions
anyway. I'm inclined to agree with Damien that most sysadmins can spell
'git', and we make people's lives easier if we get them on a git
checkout from the start. Particularly if the tarballs are still bzr!
That's storing up trouble for people.

Post by Simon Green

Post by Gervase Markham
* I'm writing a Quick Start guide - a simple 1, 2, 3 to get Bugzilla up
and running using Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, MySQL and Apache. Do I describe
Ubuntu Server (supported for longer) and a console install, or Ubuntu
Desktop so they can use a graphical text editor and web browser?

Ubuntu Server LTS. I'm going to assume even a beginner sysadmin knows
how to edit a file from the command line.

OK. I used Server. See the posted draft :-)

Gerv

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[Steve Wendt]

Post by Gervase Markham
Says the man whose company invented "yum install git"? :-)

yum came from YellowDog (it's the "y" in yum). ;-)

In any case, I agree with Simon that far more people will download a
tarball than clone a git repo.

Post by Gervase Markham

Post by Simon Green
Ubuntu Server LTS.

OK. I used Server. See the posted draft :-)

CentOS is also very popular.

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